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Category Archives: for photographers

Before and After Wednesdays #65

I’ll be getting ready to start up the next RPTE pretty soon here so email me at info@bobbyearle.com with the subject “NEXT RPTE” if you’re wanting to go on the trip of a lifetime! I’ll be making BIG changes for the next trip — and I think the next RPTE will be the best one ever. I’m really excited about it. This past RPTE sold out in ONE day and I had to turn a lot of people down :( so jump on it!

Here’s another B&A Wednesday :) This week’s image is from RPTE 2013 that just finished up earlier this month in Thailand and Cambodia :)

As usual, all of my images are edited exclusively with VSCO. Since I bought the VSCO film, I haven’t opened photoshop. This is an AMAZING time saver! And with VSCO Keys, which you can trial for free, it’s even faster. I’d have happily paid double the regular price for both :)

The image below is the final, processed images. Roll your mouse over it to see the unprocessed original…


5D Mark II + Canon 50mm f/1.2 at 1/6400th, ISO400, and f/1.4 – Dry season + baby + fish trap. Tonle Sap, Cambodia.

  • Bumped exposure a little bit
  • Fuji 800Z ++ (VSCO preset)

This literally took 3 seconds. I pressed “F” to immediately bump the exposure and the command+3 — which is my VSCO keys custom button for the Fuji 800Z ++ preset.

I paid for my VSCO presets out of my pocket and LOVE them. Honestly, I never could have guessed how useful VSCO keys would be. Who knew that pressing F, command, and 3 on my keyboard — in a matter of seconds — would give me the look that I wasn’t able to achieve with hours of action tweaking in Photoshop?!

Until next week (hopefully ;),

Bobby

Contact Bobby / View Wedding Portfolio / Travel the Globe with Bobby

facebook love...

@bobbyearle - 3 blog posts in one week. Comin' atcha 2013 ;) http://t.co/eJvAXkGMJanuary 30, 2013 - 12:43 am

kristin - Would love for you to do a full blog post on VSCO cam, and how you use it... it can't REALLY be this simple? I have the app on my iphone, but clearly there is more to it that I'm not getting... Love the picture, and great to see you posting more!January 30, 2013 - 5:30 am

The Knot, Discounts, and hurting brides…

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**UPDATE** Well after hundreds of retweets and comments, it looks like the Knot heard all of us photographers (and quite a lot of other vendors), took down the old article, and updated it with a far more reasonable one here. Thanks to everyone who passed this around and encouraged the Knot to make some changes. Wouldn’t have happened without all of you ;)

——————–

Yesterday, I saw many tweets about an article on the Knot on how brides should insist on discounts with wedding vendors, practice different haggling approaches at a flea market (no joke), act like they don’t really want the vendor to begin with, and to walk away if they don’t discount.

DISCLAIMER: I do not have a financial dog in this fight. Lindsay is a housewife (best/hardest job alive) and I have been a full-time photographer for the last 6 years (no 2nd jobs). I shoot about 10 weddings and do an RPTE to Thailand and Cambodia every year. My brides regularly fly me to exotic locations around the world to shoot their weddings in Fiji, France, Thailand, Bali, NYC, Cayman Islands, etc… In my off time, I shoot pro-bono for excellent groups like Not For Sale and people who deserve a great photographer but simply do not have the money, rest a lot because of my (seemingly untreatable) UC, spend tons of time with my wife/son/dogs, and continue to travel the globe.

All that is to say that I personally (with my business) couldn’t care less about the Knot telling brides to ask for discounts. But the fact is, I care about brides and grooms even if I don’t shoot their wedding – which is why I regularly refer brides to fellow photographers that I know will fit them better. 

So, again, this is NOT me defending my industry because I don’t want to be hurt financially. This is me defending brides — because they deserve better vendors than they’ll get by listening to the Knot on this one.

It might be important to note that I am coming from this PURELY from a photography standpoint. I don’t know if this will help/hurt brides with other vendors (although I would guess that it will not help).

Without further ado, here is the article…

 

Wedding Budget: How to Negotiate With Wedding Vendors

Even if you’re working with the hottest vendor in town, there’s always room to negotiate, especially if there’s a good reason to reduce costs — like having the wedding on a less-popular Friday night. Here are some more crucial pointers.

Know the market

Find out what other vendors offer for the same price point, and use this as leverage. Ask about every single thing that’s included in your package. Then find out in advance what extras are going to cost — and whether those costs can be waived.

Adopt a friendly but firm demeanor

There’s no harm in politely asking for a deal. If vendors are excited to work with you, they may be more willing to come up with creative solutions.

Be indifferent

You need the vendor to believe that if he or she won’t meet your offer you will walk away. Consider collaborating with your fiance to employ the old good-cop-bad-cop routine.

Practice makes perfect

Try your hand negotiating at a flea market to see what talking style works for you.

— The Knot

 

1. Even if you’re working with the hottest vendor in town, there’s always room to negotiate…

This is completely true for struggling, inexperienced photographers who use discounts as their selling point.

But the hottest photographer in town will not be cool with discounts. If you’re a great photographer that regularly books your desired number of weddings every year, then you have no incentive to discount/negotiate/haggle. And if the free market is okay with your fee (since you’re booking) why would/should you?

So this piece of advice will help you get a less than stellar photographer.

2. Know the market

Okay. So if a bride emails me “Photographer X will give me unlimited photography, a disc of all the images, every image retouched, an e-shoot, and 3 albums for the price as your base 5 hour shoot…” I will respond with “Sounds like you’re getting a great deal!” Okay, I’d be more polite than that — but, in effect, that is my response. And I’ve sent that out countless times and will continue to do so.

But struggling, inexperienced photographers who have use discounts to sell themselves will totally price match you. Again, this seriously hurts the bride who genuinely hopes for the best wedding photos she can have.

3. Adopt a friendly but firm demeanor

A firm demeanor on discount would probably leave you without a response from many, many established photographers. If someone took a firm stance with me on the issue of discounting, I would never shoot their wedding. There’s isn’t much out there that is less attractive than people who feel they are owed something that they simply aren’t.

Once again, however, this will most certainly work on under experienced/established photographers.

4. Be indifferent

This is the straw that broke my back and caused me to write this post. Mainly because there could be a bride that DOES really want a certain photographer and will end up not getting them because of this advised indifference. I couldn’t possibly imagine worse advice.

I have referred out potential clients who were willing to spend $10,000 – $20,000 booking me for this very reason. I have a rule in business — if you communicate that you don’t care about me shooting your wedding, I will believe you. It’s that simple. Nearly every established, full-time wedding photographer I know feels the exact same way.

Fact is, great photography requires more than a great photographer. The greatest photographs tend to have the common element of a great photographer with a trusting subject. And it’s almost impossible for a subject to trust a photographer if they don’t have supreme confidence in their abilities (i.e. think they’re amazing). If you don’t think I’m awesome, I would much rather send your money to someone else who you do think is awesome.

5. Practice makes perfect

I can tell you in full confidence that practicing your haggling skills at a local flea market will only help your odds at me sending you a list of photographers I think will better suit you.

——————–

As a photographer who has shot free of charge for deserving couples in the past (who genuinely could not afford it and were, again, very deserving), I am not at all opposed to doing things outside of the rate I feel I am worth. I grew up in a very poor household (which I’m sincerely thankful for) thinking it was completely normal to check behind the supermarket for thrown out food, pick up roadkill for dinner (if it was still warm :), made jokes about “dumpster diving” for “dumpster delights”, and so on.

But just looking for a discount — and having this indifferent,  ”I’ll just get someone else…” mentality? That’s not going to get anyone anywhere with me or any other established full-time photographer.

So here’s my advice. If you are dead set on a photographer, you absolutely adore their work, and you dream of them shooting your wedding — but there’s the problem of genuinely not being able to afford them — email them telling them exactly that. Tell them that they are your dream photographer, and that you’ve taken money out of other areas of your budget because you love their photography that much. Then think long and hard about an exact figure that you can afford. Make one offer and make it as best you can. Add that if you had 10 more bucks to rub together, it’d be in that offer. Finish with letting them know that they are worth their fee and that you completely expect them to turn it down — but since you’re so in love with their work, you had to take the chance. And only do so if all of that is honest and sincere.

In the end, you might not get a “yes” from your dream photographer, but my advice will get you much farther than any of the Knot’s tips.

Bobby

Contact Bobby / View Wedding Portfolio / Travel the Globe with Bobby

facebook love...

D6forty - I couldn't agree more.May 18, 2012 - 5:24 pm

Danielle Jordan - My thoughts exactly.May 18, 2012 - 5:25 pm

Mariana Herrera Mosli - Great, absolutely great response, Bobby Earle!May 18, 2012 - 5:25 pm

Christine Pagan - Awesome response! :)May 18, 2012 - 5:26 pm

Trevor Dayley - Fantastic response Bobby. I hope those advertising on the Knot don't renew their contracts because of things that they say like this.May 18, 2012 - 5:40 pm

Krista Leitzke (@kristafromvista) - Very good response to the Knot's poor advice on vendor haggling from photographer @bobbyearle http://t.co/KEyXHGWnMay 18, 2012 - 6:01 pm

(@courtneycaplin) (@courtneycaplin) - As always, @bobbyearle expresses himself with grace and honesty! “ My response to the Knot's discounting advice. -> http://t.co/tvCrqvYd”May 18, 2012 - 6:26 pm

rickssd8 (@rickssd8) - My response to the Knot's discounting advice. Feel free to RT :) -> http://t.co/dycE94zHMay 18, 2012 - 7:29 pm

Amy Martin - PREACH it!May 18, 2012 - 7:40 pm

tim dinofa (@dinofa) - well said @bobbyearle: My response to the Knot's discounting advice. Feel free to RT :) -> http://t.co/x0mJhcnmMay 18, 2012 - 8:42 pm

Jenny Baugh (@JWBaughPhoto) - amen to this! @HeyJonny123: An honest rebuttal to @theknot for diluting the value of #wedding vendors: http://t.co/MN1qzk8k - RT @bobbyearleMay 18, 2012 - 10:15 pm

James K (@JayKPhotography) - Brides-to-be should read this. Getting the best you can and not settling should be paramount to your wedding. If... http://t.co/X2UIS0mYMay 18, 2012 - 11:31 pm

The Wedding Studio (@wedding_studio) - We at #theweddingstudio couldn't agree more about this issue: The Knot, Discounts, and hurting brides… http://t.co/La9T7qr2 via @ziteMay 19, 2012 - 4:31 am

jamie - such a great article. Thank you for sharing!May 19, 2012 - 7:32 am

Colleen - Kudos to you! Fantastic advice... should be required reading for all brides & grooms.May 19, 2012 - 8:12 am

Jacqueline Lusby - Lakeland Photographer - Absolutely awesome blog post! Thank you so much for the sincere and down-to-earth words of wisdom for all!May 19, 2012 - 9:20 am

Erin Longfellow (@erinlongfellow) - Brides... please read this. Wonderful advice from a photography standpoint & any vendors you may be working with! http://t.co/iNbAnyfdMay 19, 2012 - 9:36 am

visualities videography - Cheers to this post! Thanks for sharing!May 19, 2012 - 11:30 am

Catie Stephens - Way to go, Bobby Earle!May 19, 2012 - 11:34 am

swoop - Are you sure this was an article on choosing a wedding photographer and not on buying a used car?May 19, 2012 - 11:34 am

Bobby Earle - Ha! But it's more than that... more like buying a used car from a slimy used car salesman! I know there are slimy wedding photographers out there, but this was just too much.May 19, 2012 - 11:37 am

TTLKurtis - TheKnot sucks. That is particularly bad but they (and most wedding sites and mags) give terrible advice like that. If a bride tries that with me they get a boot in the ass.May 19, 2012 - 11:38 am

RichardLavigne - Bobby... well written.May 19, 2012 - 11:38 am

redal - While agree with your "reply", and you make very good points. The knot is targeted at the bride, and with a recession on it is a good time to get deals. The knot gets free images because lots and lots of brides visit their site, and can then charge photographers and other vendors to advertise, because the photographers "want" to be associated with the knot brand. In your reply to the article, you give a better way of asking a photographer to maybe give you a discount. What if they are bull sh*tting you and you only find out after the contracts are signed?May 19, 2012 - 11:40 am

Bobby Earle - @redal: If you notice, my entire post is also targeted at the bride -- not at defending photographers. This advice offered is bad. Therefore, the fact that it is targeted at brides is even worse (for brides).May 19, 2012 - 11:43 am

alohadave - In my experience, people who get things for free don't value what they are getting. They don't need to pay for the picture so they interchangeable and not worth anything. It drives the same type of attitude that photography is something to be bargained for. Plus controversial articles sell magazines and drive eyeballs to websites. This thread and your rebuttal are proof that controversy works.May 19, 2012 - 11:44 am

Jon-Mark - GrrrMay 19, 2012 - 11:45 am

Bobby Earle - @alohadave: But notice how I didn't link to the article?May 19, 2012 - 11:45 am

tobicus - Yup, these kinds of articles are why brides come at us asking for weekday discounts, free goodies thrown in, and have things on their shot lists like "image of bride with head tipped coquettishly to the side."May 19, 2012 - 11:46 am

marti.g3 - Their was the article on "dealing" with your wedding vendors on Facebook the other day and many photographers really slammed the Knot. I don't see the Knot giving "deals" to the vendors who advertise their. When I bought my studio, I dropped them like a hot potato many many years ago. They were total asses to deal with. They still call me occasionally to try to get us back......hahahaha.......May 19, 2012 - 11:46 am

marti.g3 - @alohadave: Yeah but negative controversy like that does nothing for their reputation with vendors. They may have all the brides in the world reading their rag, but if vendors don't subscribe, what good is it. But there will still be the newbs and uninformed who will continue to use them.May 19, 2012 - 11:47 am

jprezant - you mean... THE KNOT SUCKS HORRIBLE TERRIBLE AWFUL WORST THE KNOT SUCKS HORRIBLE TERRIBLE AWFUL WORST THE KNOT SUCKS HORRIBLE TERRIBLE AWFUL WORST THE KNOT SUCKS HORRIBLE TERRIBLE AWFUL WORST THE KNOT SUCKS HORRIBLE TERRIBLE AWFUL WORST THE KNOT SUCKS HORRIBLE TERRIBLE AWFUL WORST THE KNOT SUCKS HORRIBLE TERRIBLE AWFUL WORST THE KNOT SUCKS HORRIBLE TERRIBLE AWFUL WORST THE KNOT SUCKS HORRIBLE TERRIBLE AWFUL WORST THE KNOT SUCKS HORRIBLE TERRIBLE AWFUL WORST THE KNOT SUCKS HORRIBLE TERRIBLE AWFUL WORST THE KNOT SUCKS HORRIBLE TERRIBLE AWFUL WORST THE KNOT SUCKS HORRIBLE TERRIBLE AWFUL WORST THE KNOT SUCKS HORRIBLE TERRIBLE AWFUL WORST? is that what you mean?May 19, 2012 - 11:48 am

jprezant - and to follow that... Photographers charge what they charge because Health Insurance is EXPENSIVE! And we don't have retirement funds with an employer matching our contributions! Nor do we have paid vacation. And our taxes are higher...May 19, 2012 - 11:48 am

TTLKurtis - Plus we have to waste so much time with all the tire kickers who are so damn stupid and lazy they don't even see the starting pricing clearly listed on the website.May 19, 2012 - 11:49 am

thethinkcouch - all of those above are major red flags to me during a consultation. i say 8 minutes top and i would definitely end the consult. //edMay 19, 2012 - 11:49 am

blueirisarts - I can't find that article on the knot... the link that matches your title in Google search takes me to a very reasonable article that was written today.May 19, 2012 - 11:50 am

Jim Heine - Points well made. I tried to find the article via google, but it re-linked to another article. Hopefully the knot removed it The kicker is stuff like this HURTS both their advertisers and brides. That is no way to run a business. I hate to say it, but someone should be fired for publishing something like thatMay 19, 2012 - 11:50 am

ckhagen - FYI "up to $200 a month" on advertising is a low figure. Around here... More like $600. I will never, ever send them a dime.May 19, 2012 - 11:51 am

eNoBlog - "Convince the photographer that you're not really that into them" Exactly. Lie to them if you have to. What a great way to establish a relationship with the person that will capture your treasured memories. I know a lot of photographers who will run away from someone insisting on a discount, so the missing bullet piece of advice there is "have 10 backup choices in case this wonderful advice doesn't work with the first 9 photographers."May 19, 2012 - 11:52 am

MattSepeta - The only money I have spent on advertising was on facebook, highly targeted to 23-28 year old college graduates, engaged, living in particular neighborhoods, whose interests include photography. Wedding photography is amazing in that it is so referral driven. If you are good enough, you probably don't need to advertise (I know, a generalization!) Like Jim Heine brought up, what happens when the lower-budget photographers advertising on the knot start getting even lower paying work? Does The knot expect them to afford to continue advertising? What the heck are they thinking? Anyways, I doubt the higher end clients many of us are targeting are sifting through the knot. I have always gotten bad vibes from the site, and this just puts it over the top. I would rather let my cat sharpen his claws with a wad of twenties than give it to a site like The Knot.May 19, 2012 - 11:53 am

eNoBlog - Some for-fun responses... Even the hottest photographer in town can discount. Do you discount your salary to your employer when they ask? Even the hottest offers discounts, right? Tell the photographer that you got offered way more by another photographer for the same price. Sounds like a great deal. Why are you talking with me? Be firm about your discount. No problem. How about you offer me a discount on the number of hours I have to cover, the quality of photos I deliver, etc? Go ahead, be creative. Convince the photographer that you're not really that into them. That brings us back to... why are you talking with me, then? Make them believe you'll walk away if needed. The easiest way to make me believe is to actually walk away. Go to a flea market and practice haggling strategies to use on them. My dog takes medication for that.May 19, 2012 - 11:54 am

MattSepeta - ^^^ Good ones. This does bring up a good point of discussion- What about reasonable discounts? I have shot a few 2nd weddings (divorced, remarrying) where they only wanted ceremony and formal coverage. I was more than happy to offer it at a discounted rate, provided I clearly set out the expectations that anything less than a full days coverage has no guarantees on image quality. I have a separate contract for this kind of thing. I know that the topic of discounts regarding friends/family has been covered ad-nauseum, but what about discounts for a half day coverage on a wednesday morning? Or skipping the engagement photos for a $X discount? Do you guys ever do this?May 19, 2012 - 11:55 am

amonline - "thethinkcouch wrote: all of those above are major red flags to me during a consultation. i say 8 minutes top and i would definitely end the consult. //ed" Word.May 19, 2012 - 11:56 am

ckhagen - If what they're looking for fits into the parameters of a portrait session, that's all I charge them for. So... Tuesday or Thursday evening, up to two hours, disc purchased separately... Then yeah that's different. It's about comprimise rather than me just giving a discount...May 19, 2012 - 11:57 am

Jon-Mark - @MattSepeta: Have you found the facebook advertising effective? Not only in terms of generating leads but getting the right clients too...May 19, 2012 - 11:57 am

MattSepeta - @ckhagen: Great way of putting it. I'm down with compromise, but a discount for the sake of discounts? Try that one with your hair dresser. Or next time you're ordering at a restaurant. Or buying a bottle of shampoo. Or getting a massage. ??? @Jon Mark - Yes, absolutely. When I was starting out I advertised HIGHLY targeted and the ads had a VERY high success rate. Ill pm a few more details.May 19, 2012 - 11:58 am

alohadave - @bobbyearle: I did notice that :)May 19, 2012 - 11:58 am

Amanda09 - I would love to see a photographer use these same "tips" to haggle with the Knot about their advertising.May 19, 2012 - 12:00 pm

DavidWEGS - The Knot is crap. The brides who use the Knot are only brides once (remember that), and have no experience with hiring a wedding photog. Vote with your $$, don't use them. I have not since about 2007 or 2008.May 19, 2012 - 12:00 pm

TheGE - "MattSepeta wrote: Like Jim Heine brought up, what happens when the lower-budget photographers advertising on the knot start getting even lower paying work? Does The knot expect them to afford to continue advertising? What the heck are they thinking?"


Perhaps the plan is:


1. Articles about ways to not spend money drives readership and brings in brides.


2. Strung out photographers are willing to cut off their arms to get a gig and will pay more or continue paying for ads.


Like heroin addicts.


Convince the photographer that you're not really that into them


Is zat so? Mama always said don't be into brides and grooms who aren't into you.May 19, 2012 - 12:01 pm

bham - Well I would hope that all the photographer's that advertise on the site, join forces and haggle for discounted advertising. I guess a photographer could tell the bride, well if I book this at 10% off, is 90% of my best effort on your wedding day sufficient? In today's world realistically many things are negotiable, but you wouldn't think a company would go out and post an article that undercuts the value and income of their primary advertisers (their vendors), to me that is a pretty stupid move.May 19, 2012 - 12:06 pm

Nicksan - You know, I kinda agree with you, but things like this are never so cut and dry. There are such a broad spectrum of clients out there to match the equally same spectrum of photographers. I mean, is looking for a wedding photographer like buying a car? I don't know. When I got married back in 2004, I had a budget, albeit a pretty high one, earmarked for photo and video. I think it was something like $6-$7k. I'll readily admit I treated parts of it with the same type of mentality as I would have buying a car. How can I get the best photography my money can buy? That pretty much was it. Was getting great photos and an album an important part of the day? Without question. Did we put in our time researching? Absolutely. But there was always the keeping-to-the-budget component that drove every decision. In the end it was a combination of budget and quality that drove us to choose the photographer we chose. The fact is, some people aren't as passionate as others about their wedding photography. Sure, they may want nice photos and heck, they might even pay a bundle to get them. But passionate? Nah. I think that's just the way some people are. In fact I dare say that's how most people are. They will treat it the same way they would treat buying a car. As a photographer you can either take 'em or leave 'em. From a bride's perspective, are these such horrible pointers that just might have them end up with horrid photos? I don't know. Maybe the flea market thing is stretching it a little bit. But I don't feel it's terrible to have good "haggling" skills and use tactics to get the best deal money can buy. Do you pay good money to get a Bobby Earle? Or do you haggle with Bobby Earle, lose him, and "settle" for someone else who might not be as distinctive but still pretty darn good? That's really up to the bride and her value system when it comes to photography. So for those brides who still care but not that passionate about it, some of these are reasonable pointers, no?May 19, 2012 - 12:14 pm

Bobby Earle - @Nicksan: I agree 100%. But they weren't talking about photographers in general. They were talking about every photographer -- even the most successful and well known photographers in your area. And that simply is not true. They told brides who are dead set on ONE great photographer that even THAT photographer has plenty of room to discount.


I've touched on this many, many times on my blog -- that there is a photographer for EVERYONE. This is why I'm a photographer who doesn't hate on craiglisters, weekend warriors, uncle bobs, shoot and burners, etc. I actually wrote about this in the original post -- but edited it out as the post was more than twice as big as it is now :P There is nothing wrong with a bride who is happy with hiring a high school kid to shoot her wedding for free, in my opinion. Every budget has a photographer that'll suit them. And I think that's great (again, which is why I think the craiglisters are just fine).


So I completely agree with you. My mom, for example, would never want to spend $5k on photography. She would be 100% happy with a $500 photographer. And this is why the vast majority of my post is in the context of brides who REALLY want a SPECIFIC photographer -- and why I didn't vilify the brides who don't, but rather made it clear that I refer them to photographers who I know will suit them betterMay 19, 2012 - 12:16 pm

SMP_Homer - There's a way around that... For the last couple of years, I've 'raised' my prices, and then frequently advertise a lower price as a discounted price, but really that price is the price I do want When they ask for further discount, I already tell them I've dropped the price by $xxx already, I couldn't go any lower, it seems to take all their ammo away... Most couples think they're getting a deal... I do, from time to time, give better discounts too - like when multiple couples come to me for a group discount... 3rd year in a row this has happened....May 19, 2012 - 12:17 pm

fontanka - I am not that much surprised. From my own experience with them - there is not much common sense you can find in that Co. I understand they were the first ones on the wedding photography services ad market, but they are not up to date with what they offer to photographers now and it's expected to hear something like this from them. To be fair: their competitor is also not the perfect solution, but some pluses overweigt the hassle. It's great you have responded though.May 19, 2012 - 12:17 pm

highway0691 - Just read your response Bobby, I couldn't agree with you more, particularly your comment on trusting the photographer. Encouraging brides-to-be to practise haggling at flea markets and convincing the photographer that you're really not into them - what's going on?? Brides,their mums and big sister who got married 2 years ago that behave like this I learn't early on to avoid.May 19, 2012 - 12:18 pm

S.Horton - At base, someone using those tactics I would have to walk away from in my business; if they're that difficult up-front, working with them would be a disaster.May 19, 2012 - 12:18 pm

mikeinctown - @S.Horton: True, but don't forget that this happens in every business. To take what was posted by the OP as personal would be foolish, IMHO. People should get the most for their money, no matter what the commodity/service they are purchasing. Don't forget that these people are planning out what they hope to be their dream of a lifetime, in most cases and spending tens of thousands and inviting a couple hundred people. It is very easy for them to get trapped and suckered into paying top dollar for many things involved. So think of the "pointers" as more of a general rule of thumb to use in any negotiation, not just photography. FWIW if you are worth the $$, you will make it known through your reputation and portfolio and they will accept your terms, or something very close.May 19, 2012 - 12:19 pm

memoriesoftomorrow - Rather amusingly I had someone try that exact same technique this week... My response was firm...pretty much... No discounts, you think another photographer is better value go with them. Either people want me for my work or they don't.May 19, 2012 - 12:19 pm

umphotography - You can also do what i do. I refuse to advertise on the KNOT. When i looked into it, the first thing they told me was that i had to have a package under 1000.00 or no one would look at my site The knot is playing a numbers game. To get anywhere on the not you have to be on the first 3 pages. The first page and a half are completely preferred vendor spots and they start at $225.00 per month. Second page and you might get in at $185.00. You play the numbers by putting out a low price point to attract and then you become what i despise. You use used car sales tactics to get them back into your price range. As far as Im concerned the KNOT can screw themselves. Its getting around the photography circles now about what they are doing. The better photography business should take their advertising dollars elsewhere. I know many that have. I for one cam find ways to market my business and i promise you it wont be with the knot. Let the newbs have it, let the clients get crappy photogs and everything will take care of itself. Find someplace else to market your business and tell your fellow photographers to do the same and the knot will stop this BS business practice.......and its not just photographers. They do it to many markets. Take your business elsewhere and bad mouth the krap out of them. Its the best way to deal with these idiots. The PPA and WPPA should take out national campaigns against these tactics or better yet get into the business of providing the bridal market quality professional photographers. The real problem is that we as a photography community suck at standing up for ourselves. Instead we try to keep up with the newbs and play into the madness. As a professional medium, we can and should do much better and we should run a business like the knot right out of town.May 19, 2012 - 12:20 pm

brokensocial - "memoriesoftomorrow: Either people want me for my work or they don't." This is our approach. We've never had a successful signing with anyone who started trying to bargain with us on anything besides our highest package.May 19, 2012 - 12:20 pm

SOK - A very measured and worthwhile post Bobby, and I completely agree with the sentiment... ...but... ...as Nick points out, some people shop around for photographers because they 'shop around' for everything, and there will be plenty of people out there who haggle because they really aren't passionate about getting a particular photographer. I don't begrudge someone who wants to test the waters...but I agree a place like The Knot actively suggesting feigning disinterest and practising at a flea market is nothing short of tacky.May 19, 2012 - 12:21 pm

Peacefield - I will have to say that probably 75% of my prospects/clients come to me from TheKnot. I don't advertise there or anywhere else; past/current clients talk me up on the forums and they come from there. That said, I'm almost never asked for a discount. I'm recognized as offering pretty good photography in a professional and reliable manner at a price that's not cheap but is affordable. I'm also very matter-of-fact about my pricing. The price for me to shoot is on my website so they know that before the even come in. As we go over albums, etc., I'm showing them the detailed price list that would be part of their contract. There's a real black and white quality to my pricing that may help to keep haggling to a minimum. So there really is no negotiating on my part; I already sell as many dates as I could possibly want each year so there's no need. But I'm practically never asked. Every so often, I'll be asked if I offer a discount for cash, but that tends to be it for me.May 19, 2012 - 12:22 pm

Peacefield - Some photographers should try this approach with TheKnot on their rather stiff advertising rates and see how successful they are.May 19, 2012 - 12:22 pm

Curtis N - "SMP_Homer: There's a way around that... For the last couple of years, I've 'raised' my prices, and then frequently advertise a lower price as a discounted price, but really that price is the price I do want" This is how you design your marketing to match the client's (low) level of comprehension. We're talking about people who will walk into a "trendy" clothing store, see a $30 sweater that was priced at $100, "on sale" for 50% off. They fork over their credit card and walk out thinking they saved a bundle, when they actually just paid $50 for a $30 sweater. As a professional pricing my service, it seems disingenuous and low-class. My guess is, only the lower end of the potential clientele will drink that kool-aid.May 19, 2012 - 12:23 pm

S.Horton - @mikeinctown: We handled it by (a) not discussing any competitor by name or otherwise (b) not responding to price pressure like that described here and (c) sending prospects to reference clients for a talk. Generally we made prospects feel at ease because we knew our business and how we could help and what it was worth. But when someone really carped about money up front, we thought the carping told us more about the buyer than the market.May 19, 2012 - 12:24 pm

-MasterChief- - talk about biting the hand that feeds you! :/May 19, 2012 - 12:24 pm

umphotography - Unfortunately, Until weekenders stop marketing the $1000.00 or less shoot and burn packages.........agencies like the knot will always exist. I think most brides know that if they want a decent photographer, they are not going to find one in the 1000.00 and under price market. For those girls willing to gamble, it may or may not pay off.........and photography was never on the top of their priority list either. But i will never advertise on the knot simply because of the contributions they have made to this over all decline in bridal industry.May 19, 2012 - 12:25 pm

S.Horton - Do you think that the trend towards couples paying for their own wedding is part of the price pressure?May 19, 2012 - 12:25 pm

brokensocial - @S.Horton: I suppose that could be part of it. The average person / couple definitely has less money now than the average couple did a decade or two or three ago, except for folks at the topmost echelons of society. However, folks are far more likely to go into debt for things these days than they used to, so it's also a question of targeting couples who value photography over those who see it as a banal but necessary expense.May 19, 2012 - 12:26 pm

Zansho - Bobby, can you point us to the article on the Knot? I can't seem to find it on their search terms. Thanks!May 19, 2012 - 12:26 pm

Jon Upson - Wow. Absolutely wow. I can't begin to say how well spoken that was. Your last paragraph, about being sincere and coming humbly to your photographer ... it's worked on me. I get it. I need to share the crap out of this, because The Knot really scored some points there. ;)May 19, 2012 - 12:29 pm

Ashley McBride Shively - Very nicely written. You need to tag the knot in your tweets ya'll.May 19, 2012 - 12:29 pm

Nicholas Welsh - Well said. I'm sharing this.May 19, 2012 - 12:30 pm

Cassandra Mooney - Great respond. Good news. They took the article foe. (it was from 2009) and issued and apology here in NC. However. This is great advice to brides. Knot or not:-)May 19, 2012 - 12:31 pm

Cassandra Mooney - Darn iPhone!!! Translation. They took the article down. :-).May 19, 2012 - 12:31 pm

Thomas Ross - Dude! Spot on!May 19, 2012 - 12:31 pm

Jamie Bohan Hudson - This is fantastic Bobby. THAT is what the Knot should publish!May 19, 2012 - 12:32 pm

Katia Forero - Bobby thank you so much for speaking up and speaking up for all of us!!!Amazing!May 19, 2012 - 12:32 pm

Scott Kretschmann - I e-mailed AND called my account rep about it.May 19, 2012 - 12:33 pm

Keith Powell - Great post Bobby. You nailed it.May 19, 2012 - 12:33 pm

Chrissy Deming - Excellent post, Bobby!!May 19, 2012 - 12:34 pm

Emily Fleming - Brilliant. I love every word.May 19, 2012 - 12:37 pm

Kim - Wonderful write-up, from start to finish. I can only hope half the brides that read the Knot's advice will have the opportunity to read this, too!May 19, 2012 - 5:19 pm

Dylan - Well said. I'm unsure most couples know going in that the photographer is interviewing them just as much as they are interviewing a prospective photographer.May 19, 2012 - 5:29 pm

Matt - Great response Bobby. And so well written without emotion or crankiness. You're a man of style and grace :)May 19, 2012 - 5:32 pm

Sunflower florist - Very well written... thank you very very much for this great responseMay 19, 2012 - 11:37 pm

Caroline Ghetes (@carolineghetes) - Great blog post by Bobby Earle about not haggling your wedding vendors: http://t.co/HhvyLv8fMay 20, 2012 - 3:23 am

Veronica Varos - +1 Dylan! I'm stunned that TheKnot suggested that. Their "advice" seems to get more extreme and worse with each post. They're absolutely setting their poor members up for absolute disappointment on what is supposed to be the happiest day of their lives.May 20, 2012 - 5:12 am

Elsa Corsi (@Elsa_Corsi) - Interesting read summed up with great advice. Seen via @palettera -->http://t.co/sYgzESQgMay 20, 2012 - 6:17 am

Alyse French (@alysefrench) - This is why @bobbyearle is the MAN. On brides, wedding photography, and haggling for discounts. http://t.co/rmaiMeg5May 20, 2012 - 8:03 am

Julia Beckmann (@AmoreVitaPhotos) - this article is so right! http://t.co/ksa3L7Dj http://t.co/hqTRAznPMay 20, 2012 - 8:05 am

Peter Shugart (@peter_shugart) - Great article in response to The Knot article http://t.co/aSOKQWBYMay 20, 2012 - 9:14 am

Melissa Ponder (@melponder) - “...if you communicate that you don’t care about me shooting your wedding, I will believe you. It’s that simple” http://t.co/eObpfBNfMay 20, 2012 - 1:31 pm

Caroline Robert (@CarolinePhoto) - Interesting article in response to The Knot advising bride's to haggle : http://t.co/5tuVeYTyMay 20, 2012 - 4:02 pm

Ben Godkin (@bengodkin) - @theknot next time you ask us to advertise, I will make sure to follow your advise and negotiate a lower price. http://t.co/hBx53iJuMay 20, 2012 - 4:07 pm

Caroline Moore (@MooreClick) - Great post by @bobbyearle on why haggling w/ your wedding vendors is bad news, & it's nothing to do with his paycheck. http://t.co/VXj1frioMay 20, 2012 - 5:47 pm

Michelle Strickland (@eventshooter) - Whether you are a wedding vendor who advertises with "The Knot", or a bride relying on their advice, you may want... http://t.co/POTzMA0NMay 21, 2012 - 7:56 am

Misty Miotto - I wonder what would happen if we wrote an article on all of our Blogs addressed to all of the wedding vendors out there on how to talk "The Knot" down on their advertising packages. Since they care so much about the brides maybe if they gave all the vendors a better deal we could offer our brides a better deal?????? Then let's tell the brides how to haggle for a cheaper Knot magazine when they get to the counter and it's a whopping $10. I think they could easily get it at 1/2 price??? What do you guys think??? To the Knot! Practice what you preach!May 21, 2012 - 9:49 am

james moro - Thank you for writing this rebuttal. We need to stand up to this crap from the knot. I can't say that I would've been nearly as nice as you, but it was a great response to a terrible suggestion from the knot. I recently had experience with a client that was a total nightmare, and i'd be willing to bet that they read this article, as they seemed to go bipolar and do a 180 and come up with all these issues with my prices AFTER they met me in person to discuss pricing etc.May 21, 2012 - 12:33 pm

@minitio10 - @bobbyearle Good response! I do agree! :))May 22, 2012 - 9:56 am

@HeyJonny123 - An honest rebuttal to @theknot for diluting the value of #wedding vendors: http://bit.ly/JWuhbh - RT @bobbyearleMay 22, 2012 - 9:58 am

@joshneilphotos - @bobbyearle could not have said it better man. Can't wait to talk shop in Asia!May 22, 2012 - 9:58 am

ilo photo (@ilo_photo) - some BETTER advice on how to negotiate with a photographer via @bobbyearle http://t.co/aOMACi9kMay 22, 2012 - 10:38 am

Chad Heavilyarmed (@CapeFearPhoto) - Late to the game on this, but here's one #photographer's response to an industry-killing article from @theknot http://t.co/1mFr3VI0 #photoMay 23, 2012 - 6:09 am

Sherri Barber (@sherribarber) - An amazing article from an amazing photographer on why you should NOT do what the knot suggests when you shop for... http://t.co/IuBmM8s0May 24, 2012 - 12:16 pm

Simon Bills - Spot on Bobby, worded to perfection.June 19, 2012 - 7:58 pm

Melisha - Very well said. We advertise on The Knot though have been disappointed for some time. Brides who try and use these tactics are also a huge red flag for us. When we started out we did discount and found that those clients were the WORST to deal with. Ugh!June 29, 2012 - 9:17 am

Why this Handmade Vendor doesn’t negotiate. | Art By Chapin ~ handmade books - [...] and how it was hurting the market for Bridal Vendors.  I looked at the reference given on a photographer’s Blog, Bobby Earle, and read it [...]May 27, 2012 - 6:41 am

Read this Blog post if you are looking for a wedding photographer! | Richard D. Cole Photography - [...] http://bobbyearle.com/blog/the-knot-discounts-and-hurting-brides/ [...]February 15, 2013 - 9:09 pm

VSCO CAM review.

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I’ve been asked if some of these are DSLR photos loaded into VSCO Cam. EVERY one of these were taken on my iPhone 4s (or Lindsay’s).

VSCO Cam is out!!! I have been waiting and waiting and waiting for this! It’s 99 cents and I can tell you without even a hint of exaggeration that I would gladly pay $50 for it. Again, I’m not kidding. Some things I LOVE about it…

  • It’s completely integrated with Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. I was a little nervous that it’d be an either/or thing where I’d have to ditch Instagram. Happily, this is not the case.
  • The black and white images are SOOOO much better than Instagram. Especially #2.
  • You can save FULL RES photos! No more 600 pixel images (or whatever Instagram saves at).
  • The filters are absolutely insane. Instagram looks like cheap, overprocessing in comparison to VSCO — which can look like it was shot on a DSLR and edited in Lightroom.
  • You can adjust exposure, fill light, contrast, WB, saturation, and so on. And it doesn’t look horrible like nearly every other camera app I’ve used that has these adjustments.
  • Again, it’s 99 cents. If you enjoy shooting with your iPhone, I cannot imagine how you wouldn’t absolutely love this app. VSCO does it again.

    And if you want to keep up with us on Instagram, my screen name is bobbyearle and Lindsay’s is lindsayearle :)


    Sometimes Clive likes it when I push him backwards :)


    Saying goodbye before I leave the country for a few weeks. One of the only negatives about traveling a lot.


    He’ll sit on Trouble like this all the time. Trouble loves it :)


    Coronado bridge (flying into San Diego).


    A baby rattler we caught last week in a populated hiking area. Took him to a safer place :)


    Clive fell and smacked his head onto the washer :(

    So go and download VSCO Cam for 99 cents already!

    And if you want to keep up with us on Instagram, my screen name is bobbyearle and Lindsay’s is lindsayearle :)

    Bobby

    Contact Bobby / View Wedding Portfolio / Travel the Globe with Bobby

    facebook love...

    (@bobbyearle) (@bobbyearle) - Got a review of #vscocam @visualsupplyco on the blog w/ tons of photos :) http://t.co/01H0v8YQApril 27, 2012 - 1:40 pm

    Oli - Ace review and shots. Picked it up myself yesterday, and man. It's a world away from Instagram. I'm surprised it took something of this calibre so long to crop up but glad it's here!April 27, 2012 - 4:46 pm

    Desi Mendoza (@desimendoza) - @gorirrajoe @namchivan a review of vsco by photographer bobby earle - http://t.co/3R02zYTVApril 27, 2012 - 4:49 pm

    @visualsupplyco - Best review of the app & LOVE the pics @bobbyearle Got a review of #vscocam on the blog w/ tons of pics :) http://bobbyearle.com/blog/vsco-cam-review/April 27, 2012 - 5:07 pm

    @abiq - @bobbyearle @visualsupplyco so good bobby!April 27, 2012 - 5:07 pm

    @EricaJoycePhoto - @bobbyearle - just looked through all your instagram photos, starting to think Clive is never unhappy - such a happy kiddo! Congrats!April 27, 2012 - 5:08 pm

    @MarkSko - @bobbyearle @visualsupplyco Did you mention how killer their logo is?! #welldone ("well done" here = good thing; with steak, not so much)April 27, 2012 - 5:08 pm

    matt - Beautiful shots - I'm enjoying using VSCO cam as well though wish it had a few more tweakable options. Just one tip which you may find useful, you can actually save the fullsize images from instagram directly to you camera roll - you just have to turn it on in settings->instagram->save filtered photo. Note it's not in the instagram app itself but in the iphone settings!April 29, 2012 - 11:06 am

    Daniel Lateulade (@daniellateulade) - Great review of VSCOcam http://t.co/Gb6MtiKWApril 30, 2012 - 1:54 pm

    David Wai - I LOVE VSCO Cam. I think it's the best new iPhone camera app. Yep. Better than Instagram, here's why: http://t.co/j8vt9QEWMay 1, 2012 - 1:15 pm

    wantsback2dis (@wantsback2dis) - I have the same processing power and capabilities at a way lower cost. Just look at these! http://t.co/AVHMoCT7May 8, 2012 - 9:21 am

    Pedro Hernandez - Hey Bobby, the truth is that vsco cam is amazing! I would like to know if you could tell us what are your favorite filters and when do you most use them. Mine are #2, #5, #7 and #9 Keep up the great work!July 13, 2012 - 11:57 am

    @WinkunGz - @Kaowtiip http://t.co/dTJU9i5TJanuary 28, 2013 - 9:50 pm

    VSCO Cam iOS App Makes Pro Pics a Reality for the Rest of Us | PandoDaily - [...] photographer Bobby Earl didn’t seem bothered by either of these issues, saying in a blog post about the release: VSCO CAM is out!!! I have been waiting and waiting and waiting for this! It’s [...]April 30, 2012 - 7:40 am

    Before and After Wednesdays #61

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    For today’s before and after Wednesday I’m taking two images from Jaclyn and Michael’s wedding :) As usual, I’m using TRA actions and presets in Adobe Photoshop and Lightroom.

    The image shown is the final, processed image. Roll your mouse over the image to see the unprocessed original…


    Canon 5D Mark II + Canon 50mm f/1.2L at 1/2000th, ISO125, and f/1.6.


    Canon 5D Mark II + Canon 50mm f/1.2L at 1/6400th, ISO400, and f/1.4.

    Processing for both images is identical…

  • Open in Lightroom
  • Bitchin Camaro (TRA preset)
  • Open up Photoshop (at 900px wide for the blog)
  • Sharpen for Web (TRA action)
  • Dinkin flicka…

    ——————–

    Remember, if you’re looking for something to spruce up your photos, go for it and grab some Get Totally Rad Actions! I paid for both sets out of my pocket and LOVE them. And if you do it through my link above or the banner below (shameless plug) I’ll love you long time.

    Bobby

    Contact Bobby / View Wedding Portfolio / Travel the Globe with Bobby

    facebook love...

    bobby earle (@bobbyearle) (@bobbyearle) - http://t.co/ungdzODAugust 30, 2011 - 11:54 pm

    Print your instagram photos – Prinstagram vs. PostalPix

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    If you’re like me, you use instagram on your iphone… a lot. I have an entirely separate blog of instagram photos — mostly of Clive and the dogs :) And if you’re even more like me, you’ve wondered how to go about printing these bad boys.

    Well, off to google I went. I found Printstagram and ordered a set of 48 miniprints. When I tweeted about this, Monique responded and told me about another service — PostalPix. Several people asked if I’d share my experience, including so and so, but I decided I’d listen to Monique’s advice and try out postalpix.

    ——————–

    Prinstagram. I got the stack of business card-esque prints in about two weeks. I’m a very impatient purchaser — so this was a negative for me. I forgot I had even ordered them, to be honest. But they did ship from China — so I don’t think that they were being lazy. It just takes a long time to get to the States from China. Trust me, I know. I’ve made that flight many, many times :P

    When I opened them, I thought that they were pretty dang cool! The square image is quite small — but that makes it kind of a fun little thing to have. If this was all I had ever tried, I’d definitely be happy with them. I’d probably take thumb tacks and post them all over my computer desk, or something. Just to see a collage of all 48 mini prints. The collage is $12 and then $6 for shipping — so $18 for 48 mini prints.

    ——————–

    PostalPix. PostalPix is definitely the clear winner here. The prints are 4×4, they are totally affordable, it’s an iphone app so you can order straight from your phone, and I ordered on Tuesday and got the prints in the mail on Wednesday. Not next week Wednesday… I mean the very next day! I think I paid like $12 including shipping for 40 of these much larger prints. So it’s actually less money for a larger, better (imo) print.

    So, for me, PostalPix will be what I use most often. Prinstagram still has some cool things — but for some simple, lose prints that aren’t teeny tiny, are totally affordable, and will ship out super quick, PostalPix is the clear victor here.

    Bobby

    Contact Bobby / View Wedding Portfolio / Travel the Globe with Bobby

    facebook love...

    go.instagram (@go_instagram) - Nice little review > Print your instagram photos – Prinstagram vs. PostalPix http://t.co/v94prGH #instagramAugust 30, 2011 - 1:37 am

    Astami - Thanks for sharing Bobby! Chan almost went with instaprints but i love the already-square-cuts of postal prints. I've got tons of pics I want to put up in the living room!August 30, 2011 - 1:44 am

    Monique McGonagill (@MoniqueMac) - @postalpix great review, great product! http://t.co/rcaFAPrAugust 30, 2011 - 11:39 am

    Julia (@juliaazcona) - I just ordered a bunch thanks to you :) RT @bobbyearle: Got a review of @postalpix and instagram prints on the blog -> http://t.co/ZjAOXJQAugust 30, 2011 - 8:21 pm

    Katie Lewis - ProDPI is my printing company and they can do Instagram prints that come individually and look like square polaroids or you can get them three to a strip, like a photobooth strip but bigger. They are super cool. Check 'em out!August 31, 2011 - 1:01 am

    Tyler Oxendine (@TylerOxendine) - Good write Bobby! RT @bobbyearle: Got a review of @postalpix and instagram prints on the blog -> http://t.co/zdIUUvjAugust 31, 2011 - 5:35 am